Re: Redesigning postgresql.org

Hi all,

At FOSDEM we had a discussion regarding redesigning postgresql.org to make it modern and responsive. I might have had one drink too many (water that is) and I kind of volunteered to give a shot at it. The following items we discussed briefly:

[1] Color and theme of the website should remain largely the same blue(ish)
[2] JavaScript can be used but the website must work 100% should someone have JavaScript disabled. This one is particularly hard since many “nice” things in web development, like client side validation and such rely on JavaScript.
[3] The website should be responsive, and adaptive when needed (for this one we need JavaScript for sure)
[4] We discussed the possibility of a CMS functionality briefly.
[5] We discussed the usage of web-fonts and supporting Internet Explorer as of version 9
[6] We did not discuss the backend!!

In the following weeks I want to setup a local copy of the website and start gathering a better picture of what actually needs to be done and the amount of work it is involved.

Any thoughts?

Gevik Babakhani
github: https://github.com/blendsdk <https://github.com/blendsdk>
twitter: @gevik, @blendjs

Gevik Babakhani <gevik(at)postgresql(dot)nl> writes:
> Any thoughts?

Thanks!

--
Dimitri Fontaine
http://2ndQuadrant.fr PostgreSQL : Expertise, Formation et Support

Hi

On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 9:36 AM, Gevik Babakhani <gevik(at)postgresql(dot)nl> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> At FOSDEM we had a discussion regarding redesigning postgresql.org to make
> it modern and responsive. I might have had one drink too many (water that
> is) and I kind of volunteered to give a shot at it. The following items we
> discussed briefly:
>
> [1] Color and theme of the website should remain largely the same blue(ish)
> [2] JavaScript can be used but the website must work 100% should someone
> have JavaScript disabled. This one is particularly hard since many “nice”
> things in web development, like client side validation and such rely on
> JavaScript.

I think you misunderstood that a little. If Javascript is disabled,
the site should gracefully fall back to a mode where the content is
still readable and usable, but not necessarily as nicely.

> [3] The website should be responsive, and adaptive when needed (for this one
> we need JavaScript for sure)
> [4] We discussed the possibility of a CMS functionality briefly.

Meh. Maybe we could use Django-CMS, but I can't get that excited about it.

> [5] We discussed the usage of web-fonts and supporting Internet Explorer as
> of version 9
> [6] We did not discuss the backend!!

We do not want to change the backend from Django.

> In the following weeks I want to setup a local copy of the website and start
> gathering a better picture of what actually needs to be done and the amount
> of work it is involved.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
>
> Gevik Babakhani
> github: https://github.com/blendsdk
> twitter: @gevik, @blendjs
>
>
>
>

--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company

On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 10:43 AM, Dave Page <dpage(at)pgadmin(dot)org> wrote:

> Hi
>
> On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 9:36 AM, Gevik Babakhani <gevik(at)postgresql(dot)nl>
> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > At FOSDEM we had a discussion regarding redesigning postgresql.org to
> make
> > it modern and responsive. I might have had one drink too many (water that
> > is) and I kind of volunteered to give a shot at it. The following items
> we
> > discussed briefly:
> >
> > [1] Color and theme of the website should remain largely the same
> blue(ish)
> > [2] JavaScript can be used but the website must work 100% should someone
> > have JavaScript disabled. This one is particularly hard since many “nice”
> > things in web development, like client side validation and such rely on
> > JavaScript.
>
> I think you misunderstood that a little. If Javascript is disabled,
> the site should gracefully fall back to a mode where the content is
> still readable and usable, but not necessarily as nicely.
>

+1.

> [3] The website should be responsive, and adaptive when needed (for this
> one
> > we need JavaScript for sure)
> > [4] We discussed the possibility of a CMS functionality briefly.
>
> Meh. Maybe we could use Django-CMS, but I can't get that excited about it.
>

I'd really rather not unless we really have to. Most of the "interesting"
parts of the site are not part of that anyway, they're not driven from the
"cms side". Dealing with the little bit of static info we have now as,
well, static info, is more of a feature than a bug IMO. And it's definitely
something *different* from fixing the layout, so if we do want to change
it, it should be done as a separate project from this.

>
> > [5] We discussed the usage of web-fonts and supporting Internet Explorer
> as
> > of version 9
> > [6] We did not discuss the backend!!
>
> We do not want to change the backend from Django.
>

Yeah, we did not discuss that for a reason - backend != design. Again, if
we do want to change backend at some point, that is a completely separate
project from changing the design, and should be treated as such. And right
now, we definitely don't want to rewrite the backend code *again' - what we
have now works, and is a lot more modern than the current *design* :)

--
Magnus Hagander
Me: http://www.hagander.net/
Work: http://www.redpill-linpro.com/

>
> I think you misunderstood that a little. If Javascript is disabled,
> the site should gracefully fall back to a mode where the content is
> still readable and usable, but not necessarily as nicely.

I was implying the same :)
JS will become very important when presenting the website on a mobile/touch device. I am thinking out loud here, but not all functionality of the website would be needed (or maybe even make sense) on a touch device.

>
> We do not want to change the backend from Django.
>

I am not a python/django developer (yet). So that is going to be a challenge ;) (But we’ll see)

>
>
>
> > [5] We discussed the usage of web-fonts and supporting Internet Explorer as
> > of version 9
> > [6] We did not discuss the backend!!
>
> We do not want to change the backend from Django.
>
> Yeah, we did not discuss that for a reason - backend != design. Again, if we do want to change backend at some point, that is a completely separate project from changing the design, and should be treated as such. And right now, we definitely don't want to rewrite the backend code *again' - what we have now works, and is a lot more modern than the current *design* :)

Yes. Yes.

On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 10:59 AM, Gevik Babakhani <gevik(at)postgresql(dot)nl>
wrote:

>
> >
> > I think you misunderstood that a little. If Javascript is disabled,
> > the site should gracefully fall back to a mode where the content is
> > still readable and usable, but not necessarily as nicely.
>
> I was implying the same :)
> JS will become very important when presenting the website on a
> mobile/touch device. I am thinking out loud here, but not all
> functionality of the website would be needed (or maybe even make sense) on
> a touch device.
>
> >
> > We do not want to change the backend from Django.
> >
>
> I am not a python/django developer (yet). So that is going to be a
> challenge ;) (But we’ll see)
>
>

Understood. But to change the design, there should be zero changes required
to the code, I believe. Or at least extremely few. Feel free to ping me if
you need to make any smaller changes and need assitance with those!

Oh, and btw, +<many> for the effort in general!

--
Magnus Hagander
Me: http://www.hagander.net/
Work: http://www.redpill-linpro.com/

On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 9:59 AM, Gevik Babakhani <gevik(at)postgresql(dot)nl> wrote:
>
>>
>> I think you misunderstood that a little. If Javascript is disabled,
>> the site should gracefully fall back to a mode where the content is
>> still readable and usable, but not necessarily as nicely.
>
> I was implying the same :)
> JS will become very important when presenting the website on a mobile/touch device. I am thinking out loud here, but not all functionality of the website would be needed (or maybe even make sense) on a touch device.

Right - and even if a tablet with JS disabled falls back to the
standard desktop design, I consider that to be OK - that's the users
problem; if they want the responsive layout, turn JS on again. If not,
get the default site with no bells and whistles.

--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company

Hi Gevik,

On Feb 3, 2015, at 4:36 AM, Gevik Babakhani <gevik(at)postgresql(dot)nl> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> At FOSDEM we had a discussion regarding redesigning postgresql.org to make it modern and responsive. I might have had one drink too many (water that is) and I kind of volunteered to give a shot at it. The following items we discussed briefly:
>
> [1] Color and theme of the website should remain largely the same blue(ish)
> [2] JavaScript can be used but the website must work 100% should someone have JavaScript disabled. This one is particularly hard since many “nice” things in web development, like client side validation and such rely on JavaScript.
> [3] The website should be responsive, and adaptive when needed (for this one we need JavaScript for sure)
> [4] We discussed the possibility of a CMS functionality briefly.
> [5] We discussed the usage of web-fonts and supporting Internet Explorer as of version 9
> [6] We did not discuss the backend!!
>
> In the following weeks I want to setup a local copy of the website and start gathering a better picture of what actually needs to be done and the amount of work it is involved.
>
> Any thoughts?

This has been a big rallying cry for me and unfortunately I have lacked the design skills / time to help get something going :( However, I am happy to help in terms of workflow structure (really keep it similar, but change the homepage) and in a review capacity should you like it.

There are some ideas that I proposed here (http://www.pgcon.org/2014/schedule/events/641.en.html) around the homepage. I would be happy to discuss online / offline.

Best,

Jonathan

> This has been a big rallying cry for me and unfortunately I have lacked the design skills / time to help get something going :( However, I am happy to help in terms of workflow structure (really keep it similar, but change the homepage) and in a review capacity should you like it.
>
> There are some ideas that I proposed here (http://www.pgcon.org/2014/schedule/events/641.en.html <http://www.pgcon.org/2014/schedule/events/641.en.html>) around the homepage. I would be happy to discuss online / offline.
>
> Best,
>
> Jonathan

Hi Jonathan,

That would be great. The current site is exploding with information, links and content. A redesign will also have “some” impact on what we actually are going to present to the visitor. Let me know when you have time one of these days so we can have a short Skype/Hangouts call. The more info I gather before I start the better it would be.

Gevik Babakhani
github: https://github.com/blendsdk <https://github.com/blendsdk>
twitter: @gevik, @blendjs