Re: [Pljava-dev] status of pl/java with current postgres and JDK ?

Its been several years since I've tried to deploy anything using pl/java
and its rearing its ugly head again at my $job... we have this one
in-house component that was developed on oracle, which is known to work
with postgres and pljava, that we need to bring up under newer currently
supported systems in a reasonably painless process.

our platform is CentOS 6.x 64bit, we want to deploy using PostgreSQL
9.4.latest, and would prefer to use OpenJDK supplied with the
CentOS/RHEL, preferably java 1.7 or 1.8 as 1.6 is considered EOL.

last time I built pljava I remember having all sorts of problems with
whatever postgres was latest at the time, as well as java.

so, my first question: Have things been patched up so they work with
current postgres/java ?

the deployment situation was awful too, we ended up having to deploy it
manually and it was rather intricate, and in my $job case, this is
particularly complex because the production systems administrators are
in Asia, with a 9 hour time zone difference, I'm part of a US based
development team.

I'd LOVE to see pljava packaged by pgdg as RPM's in their yum repository
for the above versions, so deployment would be as simple as ...

yum install postgresql94-{server,devel,contrib,pljava}

My 2nd question: How far off is that from a possibility ? Is this
something that could be encouraged with a bounty or something?

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On 08/12/2015 07:42, John R Pierce wrote:
> Its been several years since I've tried to deploy anything using pl/java and its rearing its ugly head again at my $job... we have this one in-house component that was developed on oracle, which is
> known to work with postgres and pljava, that we need to bring up under newer currently supported systems in a reasonably painless process.
>
> our platform is CentOS 6.x 64bit, we want to deploy using PostgreSQL 9.4.latest, and would prefer to use OpenJDK supplied with the CentOS/RHEL, preferably java 1.7 or 1.8 as 1.6 is considered EOL.
>
> last time I built pljava I remember having all sorts of problems with whatever postgres was latest at the time, as well as java.
>
> so, my first question: Have things been patched up so they work with current postgres/java ?
>

Now it makes/installs with maven. I did it (not so) easily on my FreeBSD, you should be ok on Linux.
Having maven compile your C is interesting :)

>
> the deployment situation was awful too, we ended up having to deploy it manually and it was rather intricate, and in my $job case, this is particularly complex because the production systems
> administrators are in Asia, with a 9 hour time zone difference, I'm part of a US based development team.
>
> I'd LOVE to see pljava packaged by pgdg as RPM's in their yum repository for the above versions, so deployment would be as simple as ...
>
> yum install postgresql94-{server,devel,contrib,pljava}
>
> My 2nd question: How far off is that from a possibility ? Is this something that could be encouraged with a bounty or something?
>

Far. The guys at pljava do their best within their limitations to have a working extension,
but I wouldn't expect anything more soon.

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On 12/7/2015 11:47 PM, Achilleas Mantzios wrote:
>
> Now it makes/installs with maven. I did it (not so) easily on my
> FreeBSD, you should be ok on Linux.
> Having maven compile your C is interesting :)

ok, I found this
https://github.com/tada/pljava/wiki/Building-pl-java

I take it this old page is out of date now with its references to JRE
1.4.2, 1.5.0?
https://github.com/tada/pljava/wiki/Installing-on-linux-%28or-other-%2Anix%29

(hah, on that last page, I recognize those Solaris Notes from my earlier
tinkering with this... I think the 2nd paragraph is no longer true but
then 8.4 hasn't been 'current' in a long time, nor has Sun been in
existance, its all Oracle now, and I'm not sure Studio 11/12 is
available anymore for free.)

re: getting this packaged as an RPM, maybe we can enlist Devrim's help
as its really only 2 components that need to be put into said RPM, and
he has the whole RPM build environment setup, now that compiling is as
simple as it appears.

--
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On 12/08/15 03:51, John R Pierce wrote:
> On 12/7/2015 11:47 PM, Achilleas Mantzios wrote:
>>
>> Now it makes/installs with maven. I did it (not so) easily on my FreeBSD,
>> you should be ok on Linux.
>> Having maven compile your C is interesting :)
>
> ok, I found this
> https://github.com/tada/pljava/wiki/Building-pl-java

You have come at a (reasonably) good time; a lot of bugs have recently
been fixed (there are a few recent pull requests fixing more), and
there is a work-in-progress branch that simplifies the installation
process considerably. It has now passed testing on Linux, Windows (MSVC)
and OS X, and will probably become a pull request later this week.
The next PR will probably be to advance the project revision in the
Maven POM to 1.5.0-SNAPSHOT.

So, depending on your exact timing requirements in $job, you might be
able to avoid wasting time struggling with the old processes.

-Chap
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On 08/12/2015 15:02, Chapman Flack wrote:
> On 12/08/15 03:51, John R Pierce wrote:
>> On 12/7/2015 11:47 PM, Achilleas Mantzios wrote:
>>> Now it makes/installs with maven. I did it (not so) easily on my FreeBSD,
>>> you should be ok on Linux.
>>> Having maven compile your C is interesting :)
>> ok, I found this
>> https://github.com/tada/pljava/wiki/Building-pl-java
> You have come at a (reasonably) good time; a lot of bugs have recently
> been fixed (there are a few recent pull requests fixing more), and
> there is a work-in-progress branch that simplifies the installation
> process considerably. It has now passed testing on Linux, Windows (MSVC)
> and OS X, and will probably become a pull request later this week.
> The next PR will probably be to advance the project revision in the
> Maven POM to 1.5.0-SNAPSHOT.

Hello,
is MS Windows/PgSQL/pljava community larger than the FreeBSD/PgSQL/pljava community?
Why is FreeBSD left out?

I am willing to help in testing, if you guys say so.

> So, depending on your exact timing requirements in $job, you might be
> able to avoid wasting time struggling with the old processes.
>
> -Chap
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> http://lists.pgfoundry.org/mailman/listinfo/pljava-dev

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On 12/08/2015 08:12 AM, Achilleas Mantzios wrote:

> is MS Windows/PgSQL/pljava community larger than the
> FreeBSD/PgSQL/pljava community?
> Why is FreeBSD left out?

Well, nobody's trying to leave BSDs out. :) At bottom, the
newest development is known to work in Linux because that's
where it's been developed, and Windows and OS X are covered
because Ken and Daniel (respectively) tried to build from
github and reported what went wrong, and then didn't have the
sense to flee when asked "ok, how would you like to do more
git pulls and rebuilds for a week and keep reporting what's
wrong until it's right?"

You could do the same for FreeBSD if you'd like. There are
currently 4 outstanding pull requests you could try building
and see what happens. There is a good chance you'll be as
bored as a Maytag repairman, just because between Linux and
BSDs there is nothing like the gulf separating *x and Windows,
for example.

Cheers,
-Chap
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On 12/08/15 11:36, Chapman Flack wrote:

> Well, nobody's trying to leave BSDs out. :)

In case my reply at lunch time seemed flip:

Certainly, if you or anyone with FreeBSD connections would like to
participate in testing, that would be very welcome. I see that, a
couple of years ago, you identified an issue where PL/Java would
hang in FreeBSD because PostgreSQL had not been built against libpthread.

Do you know whether that was eventually fixed by the maintainer of
the port for PostgreSQL itself? That would definitely be important to
know.

If you would like to do some testing, you could start now with the
current outstanding pull requests, or you could wait just a bit. Those
PRs are fairly mundane, small fixes. What is currently work in progress
and will be my next PR (after those four are merged) is more substantial,
aimed at resolving issues 9, 12, 61, 71, and much of the rest of
the remaining "painful to install on platform X" issues. The patch also
includes new documentation on building and installation, organized to
allow for platform-specific detail pages.

After that gets merged, though there are still some open issues, I am
inclined to propose starting the countdown to a 1.5.0 release. (A separate
fix for issue 48 should surely be included as well.)

If there's no objection to that proposal, you would then have the obvious
high-value time window to test and identify any important issues with
respect to FreeBSD before a release, and/or to contribute a FreeBSD-specific
page to the documentation if you find any special considerations that
you think should be covered there.

Also, if you have contacts on the pgsql(at)freebsd(dot)org port-maintainer team
(or if you are *on* that team), that could be a good time to start gauging
interest in possibly making PL/Java available in ports.

Again, I hope my earlier message didn't sound dismissive. Is this better? :)

Thanks,
-Chap
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On 08/12/2015 18:36, Chapman Flack wrote:
> On 12/08/2015 08:12 AM, Achilleas Mantzios wrote:
>
>> is MS Windows/PgSQL/pljava community larger than the
>> FreeBSD/PgSQL/pljava community?
>> Why is FreeBSD left out?
> Well, nobody's trying to leave BSDs out. :) At bottom, the
> newest development is known to work in Linux because that's
> where it's been developed, and Windows and OS X are covered
> because Ken and Daniel (respectively) tried to build from
> github and reported what went wrong, and then didn't have the
> sense to flee when asked "ok, how would you like to do more
> git pulls and rebuilds for a week and keep reporting what's
> wrong until it's right?"
>
> You could do the same for FreeBSD if you'd like. There are
> currently 4 outstanding pull requests you could try building
> and see what happens. There is a good chance you'll be as
> bored as a Maytag repairman, just because between Linux and
> BSDs there is nothing like the gulf separating *x and Windows,
> for example.

When java and threads are involved, things usually get nasty,
not so sure that it will be so easy with FreeBSD.
I remember I had to tweak postgresql compilation switches to get
pljava work in pgsql 9.3/FreeBSD 9.2.

>
> Cheers,
> -Chap
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> http://lists.pgfoundry.org/mailman/listinfo/pljava-dev

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On 12/09/15 03:10, Achilleas Mantzios wrote:

> When java and threads are involved, things usually get nasty,
> not so sure that it will be so easy with FreeBSD.
> I remember I had to tweak postgresql compilation switches to get
> pljava work in pgsql 9.3/FreeBSD 9.2.

Ok, yes, I did find an earlier thread where you had done that.

I am pretty sure the real fix for that has to be made in the port
for postgresql itself, to make sure the functioning thread library
is linked. I do see how that could be tough to explain to the
pgsql port maintainers, who might think it isn't necessary because
pgsql itself doesn't use threads, but leaving it out will be a problem
dynamic linking from pgsql to anything else that uses threads internally,
whether Java or ???.

I'm doubtful that anything can be done on PL/Java's end to solve the
problem, if pgsql itself has been linked with a nonfunctional threads stub.
While PL/Java never lets more than one thread into postgres at a time,
Java simply does use multiple threads internally and there is no getting
around that.

With that said, it *might* be possible to have PL/Java at least test
for that situation, and give a useful error message (with an errhint
to relink postgres with the thread library) instead of just silently
hanging and making you guess. That kind of help really does improve
the installation experience, so if you know of a (preferably portable)
way to check that, it would be a valuable patch.

Cheers,
-Chap
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On 10/12/2015 00:49, Chapman Flack wrote:
> On 12/09/15 03:10, Achilleas Mantzios wrote:
>
>> When java and threads are involved, things usually get nasty,
>> not so sure that it will be so easy with FreeBSD.
>> I remember I had to tweak postgresql compilation switches to get
>> pljava work in pgsql 9.3/FreeBSD 9.2.
> Ok, yes, I did find an earlier thread where you had done that.
>
> I am pretty sure the real fix for that has to be made in the port
> for postgresql itself, to make sure the functioning thread library
> is linked. I do see how that could be tough to explain to the
> pgsql port maintainers, who might think it isn't necessary because
> pgsql itself doesn't use threads, but leaving it out will be a problem
> dynamic linking from pgsql to anything else that uses threads internally,
> whether Java or ???.
>
> I'm doubtful that anything can be done on PL/Java's end to solve the
> problem, if pgsql itself has been linked with a nonfunctional threads stub.
> While PL/Java never lets more than one thread into postgres at a time,
> Java simply does use multiple threads internally and there is no getting
> around that.
>
> With that said, it *might* be possible to have PL/Java at least test
> for that situation, and give a useful error message (with an errhint
> to relink postgres with the thread library) instead of just silently
> hanging and making you guess. That kind of help really does improve
> the installation experience, so if you know of a (preferably portable)
> way to check that, it would be a valuable patch.

Thanx for your ideas Chap.
Next time around (next pgsql upgrade I guess), I will be more verbose in this list
and ask you guys for guidance on what/how to report/communicate/do, in order to
somehow make FreeBSD "more" official.

BTW, I personally never used packages neither on linux nor on FreeBSD,
mainly cause we need exotic features like ldap support.

> Cheers,
> -Chap
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Achilleas Mantzios wrote:
> When java and threads are involved, things usually get nasty,
> not so sure that it will be so easy with FreeBSD.
> I remember I had to tweak postgresql compilation switches to get
> pljava work in pgsql 9.3/FreeBSD 9.2.

If I look at this commit diff for FreeBSD,

https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/head/lib/libthr/libthr.3?r1=272153&r2=278627

it makes me think things might be improved as of FreeBSD 10.2
(though I haven't tried it).

-Chap
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On 15/12/2015 06:39, Chapman Flack wrote:
> Achilleas Mantzios wrote:
>> When java and threads are involved, things usually get nasty,
>> not so sure that it will be so easy with FreeBSD.
>> I remember I had to tweak postgresql compilation switches to get
>> pljava work in pgsql 9.3/FreeBSD 9.2.
> If I look at this commit diff for FreeBSD,
>
> https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/head/lib/libthr/libthr.3?r1=272153&r2=278627
>
> it makes me think things might be improved as of FreeBSD 10.2
> (though I haven't tried it).

Hi Chap,

thanx for the find. Will keep an eye on this.

>
> -Chap
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