Re: Additional links for the "Community" page

Hello,

attached is a small patch with additional links for the "External Resources"
section on the postgresql.org "Community" website. The one link there is
a bit lonely.

All links are up for discussion, and I don't think any of them is somehow
biased towards specific companies.

And of course if you have more resources, please post them here as well.

Regards,

--
Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum
German PostgreSQL User Group
European PostgreSQL User Group - Board of Directors
Volunteer Regional Contact, Germany - PostgreSQL Project

On 1/7/22 5:24 AM, Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> attached is a small patch with additional links for the "External Resources"
> section on the postgresql.org <http://postgresql.org> "Community"
> website. The one link there is
> a bit lonely.
>
> All links are up for discussion, and I don't think any of them is somehow
> biased towards specific companies.
>
> And of course if you have more resources, please post them here as we

I think the "Internals of PostgreSQL" would be good on the "Tutorials &
Other Resources"[1] page, as IMV it's a pretty thorough tutorial on the
internals of PostgreSQL.

For Stack Exchange, if we linked to it from anywhere it would be the
support page[2], but that would effectively mean we're endorsing it as
an area for community support. The support resources listed are all
things we either have community oversight over or maintain a directory of.

Thanks,

Jonathan

[1] /docs/online-resources/
[2] /support/

On 08/02/2022 03:18, Jonathan S. Katz wrote:
> On 1/7/22 5:24 AM, Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> attached is a small patch with additional links for the "External
>> Resources"
>> section on the postgresql.org <http://postgresql.org> "Community"
>> website. The one link there is
>> a bit lonely.
>>
>> All links are up for discussion, and I don't think any of them is
>> somehow
>> biased towards specific companies.
>>
>> And of course if you have more resources, please post them here as we
>
> I think the "Internals of PostgreSQL" would be good on the "Tutorials
> & Other Resources"[1] page, as IMV it's a pretty thorough tutorial on
> the internals of PostgreSQL.
>
> For Stack Exchange, if we linked to it from anywhere it would be the
> support page[2], but that would effectively mean we're endorsing it as
> an area for community support. The support resources listed are all
> things we either have community oversight over or maintain a directory
> of.

The community has no oversight over the one existing link there either.
It says "External Resources", and maybe it deserves an additional note
that the listed resources are not associated with the community.
Something like:

The resources listed here are not endorsed or maintained by the
PostgreSQL Community. Please refer any questions to the website owner.

Regards,

--
Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum
German PostgreSQL User Group
European PostgreSQL User Group - Board of Directors
Volunteer Regional Contact, Germany - PostgreSQL Project

> On 8 Feb 2022, at 03:26, Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum <ads(at)pgug(dot)de> wrote:
>
> On 08/02/2022 03:18, Jonathan S. Katz wrote:
>> On 1/7/22 5:24 AM, Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> attached is a small patch with additional links for the "External Resources"
>>> section on the postgresql.org <http://postgresql.org> "Community" website. The one link there is
>>> a bit lonely.
>>>
>>> All links are up for discussion, and I don't think any of them is somehow
>>> biased towards specific companies.
>>>
>>> And of course if you have more resources, please post them here as we
>>
>> I think the "Internals of PostgreSQL" would be good on the "Tutorials & Other Resources"[1] page, as IMV it's a pretty thorough tutorial on the internals of PostgreSQL.
>>
>> For Stack Exchange, if we linked to it from anywhere it would be the support page[2], but that would effectively mean we're endorsing it as an area for community support. The support resources listed are all things we either have community oversight over or maintain a directory of.
>
> The community has no oversight over the one existing link there either.
> It says "External Resources", and maybe it deserves an additional note
> that the listed resources are not associated with the community.
> Something like:
>
> The resources listed here are not endorsed or maintained by the
> PostgreSQL Community. Please refer any questions to the website owner.

That one link is below the fold on my laptop so I didn't even see it, I had to
go hunting to even see the area of discussion.

If we are going to have a curated set of links (which I personally question the
value of), wouldn't it be better if they were submitted in the same/similar
fashion as professional services etc and subject to moderation by the pgweb
moderators?

--
Daniel Gustafsson https://vmware.com/

On 2/8/22 4:38 AM, Daniel Gustafsson wrote:
>> On 8 Feb 2022, at 03:26, Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum <ads(at)pgug(dot)de> wrote:
>>
>> On 08/02/2022 03:18, Jonathan S. Katz wrote:
>>> On 1/7/22 5:24 AM, Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> attached is a small patch with additional links for the "External Resources"
>>>> section on the postgresql.org <http://postgresql.org> "Community" website. The one link there is
>>>> a bit lonely.
>>>>
>>>> All links are up for discussion, and I don't think any of them is somehow
>>>> biased towards specific companies.
>>>>
>>>> And of course if you have more resources, please post them here as we
>>>
>>> I think the "Internals of PostgreSQL" would be good on the "Tutorials & Other Resources"[1] page, as IMV it's a pretty thorough tutorial on the internals of PostgreSQL.
>>>
>>> For Stack Exchange, if we linked to it from anywhere it would be the support page[2], but that would effectively mean we're endorsing it as an area for community support. The support resources listed are all things we either have community oversight over or maintain a directory of.
>>
>> The community has no oversight over the one existing link there either.
>> It says "External Resources", and maybe it deserves an additional note
>> that the listed resources are not associated with the community.
>> Something like:
>>
>> The resources listed here are not endorsed or maintained by the
>> PostgreSQL Community. Please refer any questions to the website owner.
>
> That one link is below the fold on my laptop so I didn't even see it, I had to
> go hunting to even see the area of discussion.
>
> If we are going to have a curated set of links (which I personally question the
> value of), wouldn't it be better if they were submitted in the same/similar
> fashion as professional services etc and subject to moderation by the pgweb
> moderators?

This comes up so infrequently at the moment that I don't know if it's
worth adding additional machinery at the moment. It's not a nuisance to
administrate.

However, I think it'd be a good exercise to attempt writing a policy
around what gets listed on the "Tutorials / External Resources" page.

The current collective wisdom is that these are all links that provide
free resources for learning PostgreSQL, either through written content,
exercises, or both. The only one that requires signup is Schemaverse,
given the nature of its instruction through a game, but I think we'd
want to avoid services that are asking for signups, or at least paywalls.

Under those general guidelines, I believe "Internals of PostgreSQL"
qualifies for the Tutorials page.

If this sounds like a good path forward, I can draft up a policy
proposal for discussion.

Jonathan

On 08/02/2022 10:38, Daniel Gustafsson wrote:
>> On 8 Feb 2022, at 03:26, Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum <ads(at)pgug(dot)de> wrote:
>>
>> On 08/02/2022 03:18, Jonathan S. Katz wrote:
>>> On 1/7/22 5:24 AM, Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> attached is a small patch with additional links for the "External Resources"
>>>> section on the postgresql.org <http://postgresql.org> "Community" website. The one link there is
>>>> a bit lonely.
>>>>
>>>> All links are up for discussion, and I don't think any of them is somehow
>>>> biased towards specific companies.
>>>>
>>>> And of course if you have more resources, please post them here as we
>>> I think the "Internals of PostgreSQL" would be good on the "Tutorials & Other Resources"[1] page, as IMV it's a pretty thorough tutorial on the internals of PostgreSQL.
>>>
>>> For Stack Exchange, if we linked to it from anywhere it would be the support page[2], but that would effectively mean we're endorsing it as an area for community support. The support resources listed are all things we either have community oversight over or maintain a directory of.
>> The community has no oversight over the one existing link there either.
>> It says "External Resources", and maybe it deserves an additional note
>> that the listed resources are not associated with the community.
>> Something like:
>>
>> The resources listed here are not endorsed or maintained by the
>> PostgreSQL Community. Please refer any questions to the website owner.
> That one link is below the fold on my laptop so I didn't even see it, I had to
> go hunting to even see the area of discussion.

It looked lonely, and I stumbled over it a few times, that's why I
submitted a bit
of additional content for it.

> If we are going to have a curated set of links (which I personally question the
> value of), wouldn't it be better if they were submitted in the same/similar
> fashion as professional services etc and subject to moderation by the pgweb
> moderators?

We can only have it one way. Either remove the lonely link there, or add
more content which fits roughly what Jonathan proposes.

--
Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum
German PostgreSQL User Group
European PostgreSQL User Group - Board of Directors
Volunteer Regional Contact, Germany - PostgreSQL Project