Re: Mailing List Etiquette FAQ

(undoubtedly this has come up before, but top of
mind for me today)

On the oft cited wiki page here:

https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists

we link to the "Mailing List Etiquette FAQ" here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20170426175120/http://www.gweep.ca/~edmonds/usenet/ml-etiquette.html

While using web.archive.org certainly works (although it did time out on
my first attempt), should we try to get permission to just create our
own copy of it?

The domain itself (http://www.gweep.ca/) is still in use but gives the
default lighttpd splash page.

I cannot tell is the author is still around (twitter account inactive
since ~2010, no other activity that I could find with a quick search).

--
Joe Conway
PostgreSQL Contributors Team
RDS Open Source Databases
Amazon Web Services: https://aws.amazon.com

On 11/21/22 10:42 AM, Joe Conway wrote:
> (undoubtedly this has come up before, but top of
>  mind for me today)
>
> On the oft cited wiki page here:
>
> https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists
>
> we link to the "Mailing List Etiquette FAQ" here:
>
> https://web.archive.org/web/20170426175120/http://www.gweep.ca/~edmonds/usenet/ml-etiquette.html
>
> While using web.archive.org certainly works (although it did time out on
> my first attempt), should we try to get permission to just create our
> own copy of it?
>
> The domain itself (http://www.gweep.ca/) is still in use but gives the
> default lighttpd splash page.
>
> I cannot tell is the author is still around (twitter account inactive
> since ~2010, no other activity that I could find with a quick search).

+1; there are some things in it we would likely want to modify as well
(e.g. exact troubleshooting contact info) so having permission would be
good.

The author did provide an email to reach out to request permission, so
we can try that.

If the author does not reply, we can say we made a best effort, host our
own copy while linking back to the original on archive.org.

Thanks,

Jonathan

On 11/21/22 10:46, Jonathan S. Katz wrote:
> On 11/21/22 10:42 AM, Joe Conway wrote:
>> I cannot tell is the author is still around (twitter account inactive
>> since ~2010, no other activity that I could find with a quick search).
>
> +1; there are some things in it we would likely want to modify as well
> (e.g. exact troubleshooting contact info) so having permission would be
> good.
>
> The author did provide an email to reach out to request permission, so
> we can try that.
>
> If the author does not reply, we can say we made a best effort, host our
> own copy while linking back to the original on archive.org.

Well the problem with that is that the page specifically says:

"This document may be freely retransmitted in Usenet or email;
permission to reproduce in any other media should be requested from the
author, Brian Edmonds <brian(at)gweep(dot)ca>."

I will send an email (and perhaps try a DM on twitter) and see if he
responds or it bounces.

--
Joe Conway
PostgreSQL Contributors Team
RDS Open Source Databases
Amazon Web Services: https://aws.amazon.com

On 11/21/22 10:54 AM, Joe Conway wrote:
> On 11/21/22 10:46, Jonathan S. Katz wrote:
>> On 11/21/22 10:42 AM, Joe Conway wrote:
>>> I cannot tell is the author is still around (twitter account inactive
>>> since ~2010, no other activity that I could find with a quick search).
>>
>> +1; there are some things in it we would likely want to modify as well
>> (e.g. exact troubleshooting contact info) so having permission would be
>> good.
>>
>> The author did provide an email to reach out to request permission, so
>> we can try that.
>>
>> If the author does not reply, we can say we made a best effort, host our
>> own copy while linking back to the original on archive.org.
>
> Well the problem with that is that the page specifically says:
>
> "This document may be freely retransmitted in Usenet or email;
> permission to reproduce in any other media should be requested from the
> author, Brian Edmonds <brian(at)gweep(dot)ca>."
>
> I will send an email (and perhaps try a DM on twitter) and see if he
> responds or it bounces.

We read the same page :) I think it's OK if we make a best effort,
especially given that the page itself is hosted on archives.org at tihs
point and not readily accessible.

Thanks,

Jonathan

On 11/21/22 10:55 AM, Jonathan S. Katz wrote:
> On 11/21/22 10:54 AM, Joe Conway wrote:
>> On 11/21/22 10:46, Jonathan S. Katz wrote:
>>> On 11/21/22 10:42 AM, Joe Conway wrote:
>>>> I cannot tell is the author is still around (twitter account
>>>> inactive since ~2010, no other activity that I could find with a
>>>> quick search).
>>>
>>> +1; there are some things in it we would likely want to modify as well
>>> (e.g. exact troubleshooting contact info) so having permission would be
>>> good.
>>>
>>> The author did provide an email to reach out to request permission, so
>>> we can try that.
>>>
>>> If the author does not reply, we can say we made a best effort, host our
>>> own copy while linking back to the original on archive.org.
>>
>> Well the problem with that is that the page specifically says:
>>
>> "This document may be freely retransmitted in Usenet or email;
>> permission to reproduce in any other media should be requested from
>> the author, Brian Edmonds <brian(at)gweep(dot)ca>."
>>
>> I will send an email (and perhaps try a DM on twitter) and see if he
>> responds or it bounces.
>
> We read the same page :) I think it's OK if we make a best effort,
> especially given that the page itself is hosted on archives.org at tihs
> point and not readily accessible.

Just to clarify, if we can't reach the author and we don't want to link
to the archive anymore, we would have to write our own version of
mailing list etiquette.

Thanks,

Jonathan

On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 6:35 PM Jonathan S. Katz <jkatz(at)postgresql(dot)org>
wrote:

> On 11/21/22 10:55 AM, Jonathan S. Katz wrote:
> > On 11/21/22 10:54 AM, Joe Conway wrote:
> >> On 11/21/22 10:46, Jonathan S. Katz wrote:
> >>> On 11/21/22 10:42 AM, Joe Conway wrote:
> >>>> I cannot tell is the author is still around (twitter account
> >>>> inactive since ~2010, no other activity that I could find with a
> >>>> quick search).
> >>>
> >>> +1; there are some things in it we would likely want to modify as well
> >>> (e.g. exact troubleshooting contact info) so having permission would be
> >>> good.
> >>>
> >>> The author did provide an email to reach out to request permission, so
> >>> we can try that.
> >>>
> >>> If the author does not reply, we can say we made a best effort, host
> our
> >>> own copy while linking back to the original on archive.org.
> >>
> >> Well the problem with that is that the page specifically says:
> >>
> >> "This document may be freely retransmitted in Usenet or email;
> >> permission to reproduce in any other media should be requested from
> >> the author, Brian Edmonds <brian(at)gweep(dot)ca>."
> >>
> >> I will send an email (and perhaps try a DM on twitter) and see if he
> >> responds or it bounces.
> >
> > We read the same page :) I think it's OK if we make a best effort,
> > especially given that the page itself is hosted on archives.org at tihs
> > point and not readily accessible.
>
> Just to clarify, if we can't reach the author and we don't want to link
> to the archive anymore, we would have to write our own version of
> mailing list etiquette.
>

If we think about "the bigger picture", we probably almost want that
anyway. That is, we want something that tells people how to use *our* lists
as well -- ISTM that the same place that would hold this information
could/should also hold things like "how to use the retransmit feature to
interact with an existing thread" and "how to use mbox downloads" and
stuff like that. We want the general one as well yes, we should try to do
an adapted version. There's also stuff on that one (such as the "bounces
list") that is irrelevant to our lists.

That said, definite +1 for trying to contact the person first and making it
a "based on" thing.

--
Magnus Hagander
Me: https://www.hagander.net/ <http://www.hagander.net/>
Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/ <http://www.redpill-linpro.com/>

On 11/21/22 12:42, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> That said, definite +1 for trying to contact the person first and making
> it a "based on" thing.

I sent an email -- will report back if I get a reply.

--
Joe Conway
PostgreSQL Contributors Team
RDS Open Source Databases
Amazon Web Services: https://aws.amazon.com