Re: BOF at pgCon?

Koichi,all,

Dan says that nobody has sent him a request for a BOF slot. We wanted
to hold this on Friday night or Tuesday night? What was the plan for this?

--Josh

I think Tuesday night is better.

I remember plan includes review of cluster feature discussion since
Tokyo meeting and setting up cluster feature set to help people to
select the product.

I'd like to talk with my colleagues to collect other issues.

Regards;
----------
Koichi Suzuki

2010/5/8 Josh Berkus <josh(at)postgresql(dot)org>:
>
> Koichi,all,
>
> Dan says that nobody has sent him a request for a BOF slot.  We wanted
> to hold this on Friday night or Tuesday night?  What was the plan for this?
>
> --Josh
>
> --
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On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 6:30 PM, Josh Berkus <josh(at)postgresql(dot)org> wrote:
> Koichi,all,
>
> Dan says that nobody has sent him a request for a BOF slot.  We wanted
> to hold this on Friday night or Tuesday night?  What was the plan for this?

Friday strikes me as a *terrible* time to have it, as:
a) It's after end of conference, and I know I'm always pretty baked by
that point.
b) People start leaving for the airport and such by this point.
c) Of those that remain, "vegging out" at the Royal Oak is much more
desirable than an energetic discussion.

Tuesday seems like a way, way, way better time for it.

That time suffers from core-ish folks being somewhat "baked" from the
developer summit, but it's surely not as bad as Friday that way.
--
http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html

Christopher Browne wrote:
> On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 6:30 PM, Josh Berkus <josh(at)postgresql(dot)org> wrote:
> > Koichi,all,
> >
> > Dan says that nobody has sent him a request for a BOF slot. ?We wanted
> > to hold this on Friday night or Tuesday night? ?What was the plan for this?
>
> Friday strikes me as a *terrible* time to have it, as:
> a) It's after end of conference, and I know I'm always pretty baked by
> that point.
> b) People start leaving for the airport and such by this point.
> c) Of those that remain, "vegging out" at the Royal Oak is much more
> desirable than an energetic discussion.
>
> Tuesday seems like a way, way, way better time for it.
>
> That time suffers from core-ish folks being somewhat "baked" from the
> developer summit, but it's surely not as bad as Friday that way.

The developer summit is Wednesday. The tutorials are Tuesday.

--
Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com

On 5/7/2010 10:33 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> Christopher Browne wrote:
>> On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 6:30 PM, Josh Berkus <josh(at)postgresql(dot)org> wrote:
>> > Koichi,all,
>> >
>> > Dan says that nobody has sent him a request for a BOF slot. ?We wanted
>> > to hold this on Friday night or Tuesday night? ?What was the plan for this?
>>
>> Friday strikes me as a *terrible* time to have it, as:
>> a) It's after end of conference, and I know I'm always pretty baked by
>> that point.
>> b) People start leaving for the airport and such by this point.
>> c) Of those that remain, "vegging out" at the Royal Oak is much more
>> desirable than an energetic discussion.
>>
>> Tuesday seems like a way, way, way better time for it.
>>
>> That time suffers from core-ish folks being somewhat "baked" from the
>> developer summit, but it's surely not as bad as Friday that way.
>
> The developer summit is Wednesday. The tutorials are Tuesday.

Not everyone (me for example) is attending the tutorials. I don't know
by what time I'm going to arrive on Tuesday night.

Jan

--
Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither
liberty nor security. -- Benjamin Franklin

> Not everyone (me for example) is attending the tutorials. I don't
> know by what time I'm going to arrive on Tuesday night.

I know I'm arriving about 6pm Tuesday, so it's possible to do something that
night. I'm leaving Friday evening, so that night is *not* possible.
Even I were staying, I'd not find it a good night. What about during
the day, perhaps a lunch? Or if we could all find a slot where we
aren't speaking and/or ;) not interested in the talks for that block...

Talks don't start until 10AM on Friday, so <10 is an option too.

--
Greg Sabino Mullane greg(at)endpoint(dot)com
End Point Corporation
PGP Key: 0x14964AC8

Greg Sabino Mullane wrote:
> What about during the day, perhaps a lunch? Or if we could all find a slot where we
> aren't speaking and/or ;) not interested in the talks for that block...
> Talks don't start until 10AM on Friday, so <10 is an option too.
>

It's tough to just do lunch given the fairly narrow time window for it
and how many talks I'm seeing from people here around that time. Having
a talk and a break worth of time, or something else that cuts across
more time, would be more likely to work. And I'm not real optimistic
about being productive early in the morning after the EDB party.

Since I'm happy to be the jerk who announces which slots I'd consider
missing for a cluster meeting instead, I'll list what I see as schedule
possibilities during the conference itself, given the regulars I know of
on this list and what talks I expect to be popular:

1) Friday, 5:30PM-? Take over the room potentially as soon as the
Postgres-XC talk ends and miss "Closing sessions" if we're concerned
about starting early for people who have to leave on Friday night,
continue into the BOF #2 time from 6:00PM-8:00PM. What's nice about
this is we have a room to grab and everything.

2) Wednesday, 6:00PM-?, after developer meeting. I expect everyone to
be tired of talking at this point, but it's a possibility. Not sure
where to meet though.

3) Friday, 9:00AM-10:00AM. Could borrow one of the session rooms. Not
quite enough time and I'd expect attendance to be low for this one.

4) Thursday, 11:00AM-1:30PM. Nice follow up to the "Built-in
replication in PostgreSQL 9.0" session. Would miss "Hypothetical
Indexes towards self-tuning in PostgreSQL", "PostgreSQL in
Mission-Critical Financial Systems", "Efficient k-nn search with GiST
and other development"; not a lot of overlap in topics/speakers there I
think.

5) Friday, 10:00AM-11:30AM. Leads into the "Replication Panel" on
Friday at 11:30AM. Would miss "PL/Parrot", "PgMQ", "Identifying,
Monitoring, and Controlling PostgreSQL Traffic [through pgBouncer]".

Realistically, I think only (1) is feasible here, but there's the other
options I see.

--
Greg Smith 2ndQuadrant US Baltimore, MD
PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support
greg(at)2ndQuadrant(dot)com www.2ndQuadrant.us

Thanks, Greg, that about matches with what I was thinking too.

My votes are for:

* 2 (post-developer's meeting: maybe over dinner somewhere?**)
* 4 (Thursday slot before lunch),
* 5 (Friday slot before lunch)
* 3 (Friday before talks start)

** How many are we, Josh?

--
Greg Sabino Mullane greg(at)endpoint(dot)com
End Point Corporation
PGP Key: 0x14964AC8

On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 20:53, Greg Smith <greg(at)2ndquadrant(dot)com> wrote:
> Greg Sabino Mullane wrote:
>>
>> What about during the day, perhaps a lunch? Or if we could all find a slot
>> where we aren't speaking and/or ;) not interested in the talks for that
>> block...
>> Talks don't start until 10AM on Friday, so <10 is an option too.
>>
>
> It's tough to just do lunch given the fairly narrow time window for it and
> how many talks I'm seeing from people here around that time.  Having a talk
> and a break worth of time, or something else that cuts across more time,
> would be more likely to work.  And I'm not real optimistic about being
> productive early in the morning after the EDB party.
>
> Since I'm happy to be the jerk who announces which slots I'd consider
> missing for a cluster meeting instead, I'll list what I see as schedule
> possibilities during the conference itself, given the regulars I know of on
> this list and what talks I expect to be popular:
>
> 1) Friday, 5:30PM-?  Take over the room potentially as soon as the
> Postgres-XC talk ends and miss "Closing sessions" if we're concerned about
> starting early for people who have to leave on Friday night, continue into
> the BOF #2 time from 6:00PM-8:00PM.  What's nice about this is we have a
> room to grab and everything.

FYI, Dan is looking into getting us a general "developer room"
available more or less the whole conference. Depending on the size of
the group, it should be possible to use that.

I don't think we've seen confirmation if we'll have a room yet, though.

--
Magnus Hagander
Me: http://www.hagander.net/
Work: http://www.redpill-linpro.com/

> 1) Friday, 5:30PM-? Take over the room potentially as soon as the
> Postgres-XC talk ends and miss "Closing sessions" if we're concerned
> about starting early for people who have to leave on Friday night,
> continue into the BOF #2 time from 6:00PM-8:00PM. What's nice about
> this is we have a room to grab and everything.

I, personally, cannot miss the closing session, and Bruce & Tom were
talking about having 10 minutes of speaking.

Note that the *other* BOFs are Friday night.

> 2) Wednesday, 6:00PM-?, after developer meeting. I expect everyone to
> be tired of talking at this point, but it's a possibility. Not sure
> where to meet though.

I could arrange a space, maybe even dinner. Agreed that there would be
the talked-out issue. Because of a schedule conflict Jan and I have,
though, we'd need to decide this by Wednesday so I could reschedule that.

> 3) Friday, 9:00AM-10:00AM. Could borrow one of the session rooms. Not
> quite enough time and I'd expect attendance to be low for this one.

With the EDB party the night before? This seems highly unrealistic.

> 4) Thursday, 11:00AM-1:30PM. Nice follow up to the "Built-in
> replication in PostgreSQL 9.0" session. Would miss "Hypothetical
> Indexes towards self-tuning in PostgreSQL", "PostgreSQL in
> Mission-Critical Financial Systems", "Efficient k-nn search with GiST
> and other development"; not a lot of overlap in topics/speakers there I
> think.
>
> 5) Friday, 10:00AM-11:30AM. Leads into the "Replication Panel" on
> Friday at 11:30AM. Would miss "PL/Parrot", "PgMQ", "Identifying,
> Monitoring, and Controlling PostgreSQL Traffic [through pgBouncer]".

The problem with doing this during a session is that I assumed that we
wanted to attact other interested attendees, and not just the people on
this list. Don't we?

--
-- Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
http://www.pgexperts.com

Josh Berkus wrote:
>
> > 1) Friday, 5:30PM-? Take over the room potentially as soon as the
> > Postgres-XC talk ends and miss "Closing sessions" if we're concerned
> > about starting early for people who have to leave on Friday night,
> > continue into the BOF #2 time from 6:00PM-8:00PM. What's nice about
> > this is we have a room to grab and everything.
>
> I, personally, cannot miss the closing session, and Bruce & Tom were
> talking about having 10 minutes of speaking.

The idea of Tom and I speaking at the end was never confirmed so I
assume it is not happening. It was just an idea I threw out.

However, I agree core members can't miss the closing session.

--
Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com

All,

Given the total lack of "I can make it / I can't make it" responses on
this thread, I'm going to suggest that we hold our BOF on Friday night
at the same time as the other BOFs.

Of course, if people are around on Tuesday Night, I will be too. Heck,
I'll be around on Monday night but working on my tutorial.

--
-- Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
http://www.pgexperts.com

> * 2 (post-developer's meeting: maybe over dinner somewhere?**)
> * 4 (Thursday slot before lunch),
> * 5 (Friday slot before lunch)
> * 3 (Friday before talks start)
>
> ** How many are we, Josh?

That depends on whether we're looking to attract othere developers than
just the ones on this list.

--
-- Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
http://www.pgexperts.com

On Wednesday 12 May 2010 21:14:39 Josh Berkus wrote:
> > * 2 (post-developer's meeting: maybe over dinner somewhere?**)
> > * 4 (Thursday slot before lunch),
> > * 5 (Friday slot before lunch)
> > * 3 (Friday before talks start)
> >
> > ** How many are we, Josh?
>
> That depends on whether we're looking to attract othere developers than
> just the ones on this list.
I am sure there are others than me interested in it, only lurking here or not
even reading this list - especially as the visibility of it wasnt that big in
the past.

Andres

> Given the total lack of "I can make it / I can't make it" responses on
> this thread, I'm going to suggest that we hold our BOF on Friday night
> at the same time as the other BOFs.
>
> Of course, if people are around on Tuesday Night, I will be too. Heck,
> I'll be around on Monday night but working on my tutorial.

I thought we were leaning towards a dinner meeting on Wednesday night?

That's far better for me than Friday evening.

--
Greg Sabino Mullane greg(at)endpoint(dot)com
End Point Corporation
PGP Key: 0x14964AC8

> I thought we were leaning towards a dinner meeting on Wednesday night?
>
> That's far better for me than Friday evening.

Jan and I can't do both a BOF on Friday and a dinner meeting on
Wednesday. So we'd have to pick one *or* the other.

Wednesday night won't work for attracting people other than the ones on
this list.

So it depends on the purpose of the meeting.

--
-- Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
http://www.pgexperts.com

Josh Berkus wrote:
>> I thought we were leaning towards a dinner meeting on Wednesday night?
>>
>> That's far better for me than Friday evening.
>
> Jan and I can't do both a BOF on Friday and a dinner meeting on
> Wednesday. So we'd have to pick one *or* the other.
>
> Wednesday night won't work for attracting people other than the ones on
> this list.
>
> So it depends on the purpose of the meeting.
>

The purpose of the meeting will also help in picking a better venue. Do
we want a lecture room at the university with a white board and chairs
so when one person speaks everyone can hear them or do we want a
restaurant that will be geared more towards lots of concurrent informal
discussions.

What would the agenda for the BOF look like? or do we just want an
informal social gathering?

--
Steve Singer
Afilias Canada
Data Services Developer
416-673-1142

Josh Berkus wrote:
> Jan and I can't do both a BOF on Friday and a dinner meeting on
> Wednesday. So we'd have to pick one *or* the other.
> Wednesday night won't work for attracting people other than the ones on
> this list.
> So it depends on the purpose of the meeting.
>

Clustering and replication projects are really important, right? And
there's a lot to talk about from both the development and the user side
of things. The idea that there will be one big meeting that covers
everything is looking really impractical, and I'm not so sure that's a
bad thing. It's not like we're getting 100% attendance from around the
world anyway; eventually I'd like to get more input from Marko and Hannu
on a few of these topics, just to pick the first from the regulars on
this list not in attendance that come to my mind.

We've scheduled to make some progress at the developer's meeting. I
think it's important to have a BOF session on this topic that is on the
schedule, and that all the users are invited to attend. Catering to
that audience will preclude some of the really serious tech talk anyway,
so still useful even if there's a "hackers" session (or more!) before
that. It sounds like that will include only a subset of the people we'd
like to be there, but that's how it goes. I know what Bucardo use cases
look like well enough to steer people there even if we can't get the
project's esteemed leader to attend.

From what I'm hearing here, that's all it's really practical to start
the conference with. I think further planning beyond the BOF slot will
only drive us all crazy. We can regroup in Ottawa and just all try to
be on the lookout to advance all the open projects here usefully.
Search for opportunities to have one or more informal meetings, in as
large of a subset as can be arranged, and just do it. Possibilities
include:

-Meet after Josh's talk that ends at 3:30PM on Tuesday. I'll certainly
be there by the end of that, flying in that morning. Doubt there's
anything happening in that space afterwards.

-Meet after the Developer's session on Wednesday. Josh and Jan have
other plans, and it doesn't sound like there's a definite enough
alternative to ask them to cancel over; we really need them at the BOF
instead. Maybe this one just turns into an informal session without
them, when everybody else who's arrived already gets together at the
Royal Oak to grab our registrations.

-Blow off one of the less relevant (to us!) session blocks to spend some
time on this instead, like the two I mentioned I wasn't likely to attend.

One of the reasons I tried to get the wiki page filled out better before
the conference, and that Josh started asking about "claimed" features,
was so that it's easier to figure out which features involve which
subsets of people. I intend to visit the conference with a chart of all
that I'll fill in as I find useful groups we can divert onto these
topics, and Josh takes good meeting notes too. As long as the useful
advances make their way back onto the wiki or somebody's published
project plan, it's OK if not everybody is at every discussion.

I hope to attend all the sessions here, to continue helping with the
public documentation, and I'll do what I can to help coordinate informal
meetups too. Should be a busy and productive conference for everyone.

--
Greg Smith 2ndQuadrant US Baltimore, MD
PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support
greg(at)2ndQuadrant(dot)com www.2ndQuadrant.us

On Thu, 2010-05-13 at 12:12 -0700, Josh Berkus wrote:

> So it depends on the purpose of the meeting.

There'll be a Workshop meeting about Synchronous Replication at CHAR(10)
on July 3, which has a specific focus.

A clear focus for this list and the meeting at PGcon would be useful.
I'm not completely clear what use case we're trying to solve here or
whether we're trying to solve multiple use cases.

--
Simon Riggs www.2ndQuadrant.com

> A clear focus for this list and the meeting at PGcon would be useful.
> I'm not completely clear what use case we're trying to solve here or
> whether we're trying to solve multiple use cases.

Yeah, my thought is that we already have some clustering topics on the
agenda for the developer meeting, and we have your Char(10) conference.
So the need for an internal discussion among clustering geeks is not
as important as the need to find more people who are interested in
working on clustering projects and/or documentation.

Hence, Friday night rather than Wednesday night.

BTW, why "CHAR10"? Because the word "clustering" has 10 characters in it?

--
-- Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
http://www.pgexperts.com

Josh Berkus wrote:
> Yeah, my thought is that we already have some clustering topics on the
> agenda for the developer meeting, and we have your Char(10)
> conference. So the need for an internal discussion among clustering
> geeks is not as important as the need to find more people who are
> interested in working on clustering projects and/or documentation.

The amount of time allocated to these topics at the developer's meeting
is much larger than I had expected it to be. Has someone officially
requested the BoF slot yet?

> BTW, why "CHAR10"? Because the word "clustering" has 10 characters in
> it?

Hint: next years conference will be CHAR(11).

--
Greg Smith 2ndQuadrant US Baltimore, MD
PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support
greg(at)2ndQuadrant(dot)com www.2ndQuadrant.us

> The amount of time allocated to these topics at the developer's meeting
> is much larger than I had expected it to be. Has someone officially
> requested the BoF slot yet?

Yes, it's on the schedule.

> Hint: next years conference will be CHAR(11).

Oh, I see. Figures that I'd think of it in DB terms rather than as a
acronym.

--
-- Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
http://www.pgexperts.com

On Sun, 2010-05-16 at 11:20 -0700, Josh Berkus wrote:

> BTW, why "CHAR10"? Because the word "clustering" has 10 characters in it?

Clustering, High Availability & Replication, 2010

--
Simon Riggs www.2ndQuadrant.com

So, did this BOF happen? I had to leave on Friday evening before
the BOFs. If it did happen, can someone give a report here?

--
Greg Sabino Mullane greg(at)endpoint(dot)com
End Point Corporation
PGP Key: 0x14964AC8

Not actually. The last session (mine) took longer and the closing
session took even longer. So we moved to the pub directly.

Many clustering people gathered and we had very good time. I talked
about XC thing with several other guys there but I don't know what was
going on in total.

Sorry for poor information.

(2010年06月10日 01:06), Greg Sabino Mullane wrote:
> So, did this BOF happen? I had to leave on Friday evening before
> the BOFs. If it did happen, can someone give a report here?
>
>